-
Website
http://i.treehugger.com/test/mt4/ -
Original page
http://i.treehugger.com/test/mt4/files/2009/04/gop-fear-shimkus-congress-climate-bill.php -
Subscribe
All Comments -
Community
-
-
Top Commenters
-
Popular Threads
The Largest Assault on Democracy and Freedom in this Country": GOP Congressman on Climate Bill
------
I disagreen entirely - The Patriot Act is the largest assault of our privacy and completely contidicts the US Consititution.
You have to admit that these republicans are making a very compelling case ... for Eugenics.
I'm a big believer in separation of church and state. I am a skeptic but could have done without the religous perspective on this debate.
It does seem unual that one would consider something that humans exhale pollution. I'm told by plant experts that commercial greenhouses burn methane to release CO2 because it benefits the plants. One expert said the ideal concentration is about 1500 ppm. It does concern me that a misinformed public doesn't even know the difference between carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide.
We certainly need to be exploring alternative energy for two reasons. We'll eventually run out of fossil fuels and energy indepences would benefit national security.
We should not move forward so quickly that those who can least afford it are somehow disadvantaged now. For example, bio-fuel mandates have resulted in food riots in many countries including Mexico. It's been esitimated that another similar bio-fuel related jump in food prices could leave two million people without food worldwide.. We learned a hard lession when the banning of DDT resulted in 40 Million or so malaria deaths. Let's not leap before we look again.
By the way, as much as some would like to blame forest fires on AGW, it is more likely do to decades of accumulating fuel in the forest because envrionmentalists are just now figuring out what native americans new hundreds of years ago.
FInally, you may say what you want, just the debate regarding the science rages on. Science isn't decided by consenus, but even so AGW enthusiasts never had one anyway.
Obama seems to want to listen to all sides of the story when it comes to the middle east. When it comes to AGW he thinks the science in indisputable. It's a shame he isn't more open minded on this issue.
Dash RIPROCK III
HootervilleGazette.Com
I have to say that I am not one for politics, but it seems to me that while the republicans may be against it, since their numbers are so limited and they oppose the EPA straight regulation, they should be more open and present to debate on the issues rather than taking hard lined stances. I think given the numbers and the democrats feel that it is the political will of the people for them to do something, they would do better to actively participate in discussions about feasible limits and a regulatory system that will both be good for people and the planet.
I'm out in California and in the valley that is being hit hard by the shutting off of the delta water by the government due to the environmental policy. It seems that our country has been blind to many important issues like this in the past and then is seemingly blindsided when a crisis occurs. I would like to see both sides cooperate and allow for an intelligent discussion of the issue that prepares our country for the future. Just like the water crisis in CA, this country needs to start re-evaluating the changes occuring regionally around the country, whether due to AGW or not and make changes to better allow for sustainable life. I think this involves both sustainable practices and smarter regional control of resources, but this article above seemed to be a microcosm of a much bigger issue in our country to me.
Dash. DDT is not banned. Never has been in developing nations. It was banned for sale in the USA where there is no longer any endemic malaria - because it was threatening the Bald Eagle, the national symbol, among other reasons.
Yes there have been proposals to band DDT worldwide but cooler heads prevailed. What has changed is that it is no longer sprayed all over the landscape: for two reasons. One is that it is way too expensive to cover half the continents of Africa and South America. And number two is that widespread use was causing resistance to it by mosquitos.
After several decades of using alternative insecticides, DDT is making a comeback for treating actual settlements and instect nets that people sleep under. It works without exposing wildlife.
Please let your friends know that the millions of dead cause by DDT ban thing is an urban myth. TreeHugger has posted on this subject at length if you would like references.
The people who elected these idiots are probably the same ones that let theie ten year old drive them to the liquor store because they are too impaired. Informed decisions are required for most vital aspects of society but there is never a requirement for basic intelligence when it comes to this all hailed democracy. Is it democratic that the majority of idiots deystroy the world for those intelligent and caring beings that deserve to be here. Please start issuing reproduction permits based on IQ.
As I said in a comment to an earlier post today, these whack-jobs who have co-opted the name Republican are NOT representative of the Republican party that Lincoln founded. They subsist ONLY on conflict, hence his hyperbolic and clearly insane statements. The problem is that the hair-trigger and borderline insane take these comments literally. That kid who shot 3 police officers the other week when they came to his door? He was afraid that Obama was coming to take away his guns.
Next up: crazy person shoots Environmental Police officers because he thins they are coming to steal his democracy (when they are just responding to a report of a rabid raccoon). Don't think it'll happen? You just watch.
Wake up. Sentient people of all political leanings, remove these hostile and inflammatory rabble rousing traitors from our government. Allowing them to continue is done so at our great peril.
I was at a talk the other day by a climate scientist. He said (I paraphrase and summarize):
About 40 million years ago the CO2 concentration in the air was between 600 and 1500 ppm. There were no ice sheets or glaciers anywhere on the planet, sea level was 100m higher, and there were alligators in the arctic and palm trees in Wyoming. And if we had been around, humans would probably have thrived in that climate.
The difference is that that change happened over 10,000-100,000 years. Animals and plants had time to migrate, new soil had time to form, rocks had time to weather and moderate ocean pH, new species had time to arise.
When climate change happens in 100 years, none of those systems work. That is where the catastrophe comes in.
Ultimately, life on this planet will be fine- the senator is right about that. And humans will likely survive. But civilization at today's scale is another matter. Revelation also says that 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel will be saved. Doesn't sound like the population'll be too high, does it?
Addendum: when I say life on the planet will be fine, I mean after a few million years when new species have arisen after the current mass extinction
40 mil. deaths from DDT ban - gosh!
I remember me reading the paper about how many people were taken into Stalin's labour camps. The figures range 300.000 - 100 millions, depending on whose research you are reading. 300.000 figure is supported by nostalgic Soviets - this figure is not big deal, they say, since, per capita, this is less than the number of prisoners in US today.
The funny thing, though, is how those guys who supported 100 million figure got it. They took USSR official DAILY statistics on how many people were behind the bars over the period of, say, 10 years and simply added the numbers of prisoners for each day over the examined period of time. That is, if some guy served, say, 10 years - that is, ~3650 days - this would translate into 3650 prisoners in the final statistics acquired by this method of calculation.
The paper concluded with poking fun of the "100 mil." researchers by taking the same official USSR statistics and summing up numbers of prisoners behind the bars for each HOUR over the period of 10 years. The figure was colossal. I don't remember it, but it's in billions.
One should be very cautious with statistics. Even when it comes from worthy source. Let alone the sources such as one where the figure of 40 mil. deaths from DDT bas was acquired from - Steven Milloy's site.
Humans being around in 1 mio years is no excuse for letting millions die now.
We can't continue destroying the place we live in, flattening mountains, cutting forests, poisoning ground, water and air.
Whatever a few regressionist GOPers think, we can't let them slow down improvements to protect the planet.
Cap & Trade / Climate legislation is absolute BS.
A gas tax? DO IT!! Not b/c of some "sky is falling" CO2 nonsense.... but the fact that it will shift us foreign energy (if done right, in SLOW, GRADUAL incriments, no more than $1/gallon distributed over a number of years).
But America wont do this... Oh no.... Its too much fun to blame Detroit for all of the worlds problems... Just ask president Pelosi.. I means speaker Pelosi..
Cap & Trade / Climate legislation is absolute BS.
A gas tax? DO IT!! Not b/c of some "sky is falling" CO2 nonsense.... but the fact that it will shift us foreign energy (if done right, in SLOW, GRADUAL incriments, no more than $1/gallon distributed over a number of years).
But America wont do this... Oh no.... Its too much fun to blame Detroit for all of the worlds problems... Just ask president Pelosi.. I means speaker Pelosi..
Unbelievable. How dare they!! Let's pray that all the green legislative actions go through.
@ Willy Bio:
Well, that's probably only true insofar as Lincoln didn't found the Republican Party. Then again, it's not 1861, nor are the Republicans too concerned about the Kansas-Nebraska Act anymore.
Nice catchphrase though, but I'm afraid either Code Pink or Huffingtonpost.com already owns the copyright -- though I'm sure that won't stop liberals from parroting it indefinitely. SKWUAK! Polly want a cracker!
Can you explain me why USA is the only place where people discuss about CO2 as food in danger for plant?
I NEVER heard something so stupid against CO2 global warming...
An European.
That's nice, fate decided by Matthew the tax collector.
No thanks.
Hey, last I heard, he didn't even write his own work. ???
Not a reliable source, try again.
Assaults on free speech - problem
"sneak & peek" - problem
Double taxes on companies that release carbon in the atmosphere - problem.
The only way to make Cap & Trade work is to eliminate the income tax. Otherwise you are doubling regulation and taxation.
Why didn't the Democrats say good riddance to the auto makers when they had a chance? We could have saved billions of tax dollars and the planet at the same time.
There are exactly two kinds of informative presentations that push me in the direction of support for action on global warming. (1) Those which advocate it, made by presenters with credibility and (2) those which oppose it, made by persons lacking credibility. Every argument seems to fall into one of these two catagories. I would like to hear somebody with a presentation that pushes me in the other direction, but I can't seem to find anything like that. Any suggestions?
US SENATE REPORT UPDATE ON MAN-MADE GLOBAL WARMING CRISIS:....... http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=2674e64f-802a-23ad-490b-bd9faf4dcdb7 .......700 (and increasing daily) respected and award winning international scientists, professors, climatologists, experts in the SCIENTIFIC evidence of global warming report to the U.S. SENATE. (Outnumbering by 13 to 1 the 52 UN scientists who reported for the IPCC).
US SENATE REPORT UPDATE ON MAN-MADE GLOBAL WARMING CRISIS:....... http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=2674e64f-802a-23ad-490b-bd9faf4dcdb7 .......700 (and increasing daily) respected and award winning international scientists, professors, climatologists, experts in the SCIENTIFIC evidence of global warming report to the U.S. SENATE. (Outnumbering by 13 to 1 the 52 UN scientists who reported for the IPCC).
Shimkus: "This is the largest assault on democracy and freedom in this country that I’ve ever experienced."
Democracy and freedom don't need to be assaulted. They need to be devalued and reconsidered.